Six imams ejected from US flight
If we listen to every xenophobic person on every airplane who is uncomfortable with Muslims, we are fucked. Muslims are not terrorists! Some terrorists are Muslim. Big fucking difference. Some terrorists are also protestant white guys.
My title is somewhat inappropriate because I know we are not talking about race, per se, but the net result is the same. Intolerant, ignorant, paranoid people treating people badly for no reason.
10 thoughts on “Minneapolis racists in the news”
Sorry, one more thing…
I think you are implying that these guys should have held themselves to a different standard because they are Muslim, in order to not be provocative.
I don’t mean that at all, I’m saying that these guys might have been over the top, louder than they needed to be, more obvious than they needed to be, and more vocal than was maybe appropriate. I guess that’s what I really mean, they may have been innapropriate for the setting and drawing attention to themselves purposely. If this is the case, it’s fucked up on their part. It’s not the same as yelling fire in a crowded building, your right, but people are overly nervous and fearful when they fly and I think it’s fucked up to play on those fears to get a rise.
I totally do not think we should wait for all the facts to be in, I agree with you. That would take all the fun out of it, plus, I don’t really believe the facts are ever all in, not to mention that your “facts” may be different from my “facts” depending on our sources. It’s just interesting to see which way people spin it, even when it’s not overtly political.
Also, notice how I carefully didn’t ascribe any opinion as being left or right? I think it’s more interesting to try and just look at the issue without a political filter (although you are right that the lefties will generally see it one way and righties another). I think this may help to illuminate some difference rather than the typical political flame war.
Speaking of flame wars, where’s Sari Gordon when you need her? But I digress.
One more thing, my favorite political blog, Powerline, started a really good forum you should check it out. It’s pretty civil and there’s lots of pretty intelligent discussion, problem is it tends to be a bunch of righties agreeing with each other which is no fun. I’d encourage any left-leaning folks to join the discussion. It’s really active and highly trafficked so your posts will be read by lots of folks. I started a thread called “Is CNN Anti-American?” which was a really hot topic fro a while.
I think there are two interesting issues. That is one. The other is: why are people on the Right more likely to equate Islam with terrorism? I think you are implying that these guys should have held themselves to a different standard because they are Muslim, in order to not be provocative. This is because your average white person is more likely to think a Muslim is a terrorist than non-Muslims. I believe this is a thing like racism. From what I can tell, these guys were acting like they believed they had the same rights that everyone else on that plane had, to talk and pray as they saw fit. No one yelled fired in a crowded theater.
To your point: I call ’em like I see ’em. I’ll admit when I am wrong. I DON’T get all the facts first. I react. This blog is me reacting. I’m sure I get ’em wrong some times.
On the other hand, I think the Right has learned that they just have to write a story that says the opposite of what the Left believes so bloggers can go “See? It says right here you are wrong.” We all have to pick and choose among news sources. I’m not saying that is true in this case but I don’t agree that we should wait until all the facts are in before we discuss and react.
…is gonna get a blog post all it’s own. 😉
At the risk of beating a dead horse, as I’m wont to do, let me just say the following.
If these folks (the Imams) were simply saying their normal prayers at the normal time, and being respectful of the other passengers, then I agree with Michael. The offended passenger(s) were Islamo-phobic, paranoid, rascist fucktards
If, on the other hand, these guys were being provocative to make some kind of point then they were the fucktards. Can we agree on that?
I think the interesting part of this discussion is why some people take one side and some people take another, before the facts are fully known. The original BBC article seems pretty neutral actually.
oh, i forgot…
It looks like as facts unfold concerning this incident, I very well may be correct in my assumption that these Imams were provocateurs looking to make a scene. Please read this http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=249091839930090.
So it makes me wonder why some folks are so quick to play the race card, without even knowing all the facts. And in this case, not to impune anybody because of a particular political stance, just a bunch of ordinary Americans on a NWA passenger jet. Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that these folks, minding there own business are “intolerant, ignorant, paranoid people?” It seems to me that incidents like this are another opportunity for some to try and demonstrate how America and Americans are the bad guys. Where does this self-loathing come from?
How ’bout giving America and Americans the benefit of the doubt for once?
Guys, I’m not a racist, I’m not a Christian (assuming you meant me when you said y’all), I’m not an Islamo-phobe and I’m not stupid. I’m not saying these guys are terrorists at all. Shit! These people, from the reports that I can find, were acting in a very provocative way in my opinion to elicit a response and at the very least to annoy other passengers. This is according to eyewitness reports.
I don’t think that if these guys were praying silently and respectfully that anyone would have a problem, I certainly would not.
In this day and age when people are nervous about flying, and some are even nervous if Arab looking people are on board (not saying this is right, just a plain fact), and these guys, I believe, were playing on these fears to elicit a reaction. This is not cool. It’s stupid, insensitive, and irresponsible on their part.
Agreed, Michael, agreed. Sigh.
These men were not terrorists. That is now a fact. It is paranoia, in my view, that talk of the Koran or Allah is now equated with terrorism. That is a deep betrayal of the freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Plus the airline should have known that a Muslim conference had just ended in Minneapolis.
If we treated Christians like this y’all would be freaking out about how we hate religion. I DO hate religion, for the most part, yet, as an American, I feel the rights of these men were trampled because of their faith.
I agree, Muslims can be asshole racists fucktards, too. No question about it. These men were men of the cloth and they should be free to discuss the Koran, Allah and the war in Iraq.
The way the Right equates terrorism with Islam is wrong and borders on “racism”, in my opinion.
Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday’s events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.
One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur’an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating “Allah, Allah,” he said.
And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said.
All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said.
Now sorry, I must be a dumbass racist too but if the above characterizations by the Northwest spokesman and the eyewitnesses is even halfway accurate, I would have been uncomfortable as well.
Muslims can be asshole racist fucktards too (that’s an understatement) and they don’t get a pass from me.