The Republicans, and some Democrats and probably lots of you keep fixating on this word “amnesty” in regards to the immigration debate.
The problem is, there is reality to deal with. Some 12 million illegal immigrants are in this country right now. Like Harry Reid said, no matter what we call it, they are going to be here tomorrow, the next day, next year and next decade. It is virtually impossible to round up and deport 12 million people, both for logistical reasons and for humanitarian reasons.
So get over it. You can talk about “law breakers” and “amnesty” all you want but it doesn’t get us one bit closer to having a rational policy towards dealing with this problem.
Let me ask you: why would someone leave their family, risk the cruelty of the criminals who facilitate illegal border crossing, risk arrest and imprisonment by the US and, if they are successful entering this country, live in constant fear of being caught, arrested, imprisoned and deported.
What would it take for you to do that? I know what it would take for me. It would take me considering it the only option to keep my family fed. If your children were starving, would it be immoral for you to steal food for them? Is it really immoral for these people to seek a better life across the border?
One thing we could do is ease our legal immigration policies. We could also work to build up Mexico’s economy instead of paying slave wages for products produced there. In many ways, amnesty is a great idea. Let’s get people to come forward, confess, pay their dues and get on a path to citizenship. Mexican immigrants are wonderful people in almost all cases (just like all people are wonderful people in almost all cases). They serve in our military, they work hard, they are lawful, family-oriented and moral people.
The problem IS NOT that “law breakers” are invading our country. It’s the fact that our country has done a piss poor job of partnering with Mexico to build their economy. Mexico is a disaster. People are coming here out of desperation. The correct response is not to build ridiculously expense walls and herd people up into concentration camps. The correct response is to find a political and economic solution to the core problem. Oddly, this is what Bush has been trying to do. He and I roughly agree on this issue.
lolife 
You misunderstand….
Yes, it’s Mexico’s fault. It’s not our fault, but we are willing to spend tons of money “fighting illegal immigration” when we could spend money, instead, helping to build their economy. Instead we ship American jobs to Mexico, pay much, much lower wages, and pocket the difference.
An analogy. Drunk driving costs millions of dollars. If we were to offer free taxi rides home for people too drunk to drive, we would save money and lives. We would rather have people die and lose millions in medical bills and lawsuits then just implement a program to get people home safely. It’s the drunks “fault” but we could make a decision to save money and lives. It’s called being practical.
I’m trying to say something similar. Let’s have a mission of building Mexico’s economy instead of a mission to waste billions of dollars fighting an immigration war we wouldn’t have to fight (e.g Canada) if Mexico wasn’t so fucked up.
Yes, I know what amnesty means. You still can’t seem to comprehend that the alternative to amnesty is a logistical and humanitarian disaster that would cost billions, hurt our economy, tear families apart and ultimately provide no benefit whatsoever to you and me.
I agree with you on many of the principles here. The rule of law is important. But the water is already under the bridge and the Right, and much of the Left, are completely deluded about that fact.
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I thought Mic was joking…I just turned on CNN…it is true…Bush commuted Scooters sentence…what a stain!!! he commutes the sentence of a convicted felon…what a complete scumbag…
I thought Clinton was a scumbag when he pardoned Mark Rich (as did the right)…I also just learned that Mark Rich’s attorney???? Scooter Libby…
What a country..you have to love the USA
The only thing that would be better would be if Bush would pardon Paris Hilton..cept she is already out…
Bush is a scumbag.
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he needed to commute Scooters sentence…Scooter took the fall for Bush…
Criminals!!!! all of them Criminals!!!!
sorry back to Mexico…
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Dude, you are a poster child for the “Blame America First” crowd. Guess what, the USA is not the beginning and the end of all the problems in the world. Mexico sucks because the Mexican government sucks, and the corruption is rampant. There is nothing magical that happens at the Mexican border that prevents people living south of it from being prosperous. It’s their fucking government and institutionalized corruption. It’s not our fault. I believe I read somewhere that cash coming in to the country from illegals in the USA is their NUMBER 1 INDUSTRY. Shitty partner? If it weren’t for us, the poverty there would be staggering compared to what it is now.
Canadians are not exploited because Canada, at the very least, has a decent system of government, is relatively free of corruption and the people there have built a good economy that can sustain the citizenry. So, I guess the USA is also responsible for Canada’s success, right? We are conspiring against, and taking advantage of Mexico because they are brown people? Give it a fucking rest.
You want to blame somebody for the problems in Mexico, blame the government, the MEXICAN government!
And sorry, any way you slice it, a program that basically forgives people for breaking he law, and rewards them with eventual citizenship, is amnesty.
am·nes·ty [am-nuh-stee]
noun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
-noun
a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.
Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole.
a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
–verb (used with object)
to grant amnesty to; pardon.
And while I’m here… Bush just commuted Scooter Libby’s sentence. Good for him, that’s the first good thing he’s done in a while by my reckoning. That’s a little “amnesty” that I can live with.
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economically we exploit Mexico. What, other than Mexicans, is Mexico’s number one export?..after Tourism and weed…
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I have no problems with enforcing the borders, provided doing so has a security benefit and a return on investment economically. Fences thousands of miles long are expensive and they need to be monitored or people will just go over them or cut holes in them. We should not go through all that trouble and expense to protect some xenophobic, abstract notion. We should do it if it pays off, in some sense.
My post was specifically aimed at the notion that people are tripping over the word “amnesty”. They are here, they are gonna be here and it doesn’t matter what word you call it. I am opposed to any effort to round up people, break families apart and throw people back over the border. A guest worker visa of some sort might very well encourage people to step forward. A threat of fines, imprisonment and deportation will keep them in the shadows.
Neither of you guys have addressed the core problem: Mexico sucks. We are a shitty partner to Mexico. The right way to solve this problem, and probably far cheaper in a million ways, is to be a good partner in building Mexico’s economy instead of raping them under the banner of “globalization”.
We do not have Canadians streaming over the border.
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For some reason, yet unknown to me, our Government does not want to secure our borders. How in the hell can we have a “no fly” list when we have borders that are a joke?…..
They need to slow illegal immigration…they will never completely stop it, but they can slow it down…..then get a handle on the situation.
I also have a problem with the government talking about going after small business that hires illegals…the big ol US of A can’t keep em out but they will “fine” a business that gives one of them a job?
3 and 4 generations ago, my family came from Norway and from England. Legally…things were tough in Norway…the English side? they were just opportunists performing on riverboats that ran up and down the Mississippi….
granted…now is a different time. We could set up a program for “integration”…step forward. Show your connections to the US…your history etc…work towards legal citizenship…take the test, learn the language etc…
I have attended several Naturalization Ceremonies and watched the tears in the eyes of those that have “achieved” becoming a citizen…I can not support this bill. I don’t care which party thinks it is a good idea…GWB is whacked on lots of accounts, this one included…….one of our senators voted yay, one voted nay (ND)…
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exactly. close the borders, build a fence, whatever it takes. then, enforce the existing laws, or make new laws to allow for more guest workers. the illegal problem will take care of itself by attrition, which will take many, many years. but, it’s taken many years to get us where we are now. it’s my feeling that most of the illegals don’t even want citizenship, they just want to work, and support their families here and in mexico. nothing wrong with that, lets make it easier for them to do it. but you cannot reward law-breaking with american citizenship. no matter how far down the road, or touch-backs, or fines that will never be paid, or another ridiculous bureaucracy to administer x, y, or z visas that will never work. we can’t keep up with legal applications for visas as it is. how are we going to administer all the red tape for 12 million all at once. it makes no sense.
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I don’t think the issue is the 12 million that are already here…the issue is the 12 million that are on there way here illegally…
From what I have been reading,and I admit I am somewhat ignorant on this issue, the US has one of the most relaxed immigration policy of any “non-third world” nation. Our borders both North and South are incredibly “open” (ie…the number of northern border stations where at midnight the US is protected by an orange cone…sorry, I lied…since 911 those stations are protected by several orange cones.
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Here’s the problem with your entire argument…
What about all of the people who wait in line, do everything legally, and spend lots of money and time to enter this country the right way? Is this fair to them? They probably think “why the hell did I waste my time and money doing things the right way, I should have just entered the country illegally!”
Also, we have laws for a reason, we are a country of laws and laws must be obeyed or the whole system falls apart. Let me follow your logic… if someone was starving, homeless, or couldn’t feed their family, it would be OK if they just broke into your house and stole your food and slept on your living room floor, right?
Citizenship and legal status in the greatest nation ever known to man is valuable, it’s precious, and I consider myself very fortunate to possess it. I don’t think we should just hand this out to people who break the law and in effect, steal from me, you, and all tax paying citizens. This is also a matter of security and sovereignty. If our borders and laws are meaningless, then what is our country really? This whole things cheapens our country, cheapens the value of citizenship, and makes it OK to just break laws because “you don’t have any choice.” Sorry, I’m not buying it.
I do agree, that we should be compassionate. We should have a guest worker program, we should allow immigrant workers into our country. But we should not give them a path to citizenship when there first step on the journey was to ignore our laws.
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