Biden vs. Palin

First of all, Dear Republicans, quit treating your candidate like she is a delicate flower. If she is, she ain’t qualified to be VP. Tonight should be a knock down drag out fight. Biden should not have to be careful to make sure he doesn’t bruise the delicate flower. All the women I debate with need no such special treatment. Neither does Palin. So Palin — BRING IT. Biden, take her down.

Biden vs. Palin

26 thoughts on “Biden vs. Palin

  1. LEVI says:

    Check your facts Micadelic.
    Although the McCain campaign came out after the fact in an attempt to cover her ass, Palin’s position is clear.

    ABC News’ Rick Klein Reports: Among the issues Sen. John McCain will have to smooth over with his new running mate: global warming.

    In an interview for the September (2008) issue of the conservative magazine Newsmax, Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, said she does not believe climate change is caused by human behavior.

    “A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I’m not one though who would attribute it to being man-made. ”

    and if ABC news is too “Mainstream Liberal Media” for you, you can look at the Newsmax site which printed the interview. Doesn’t get much more right leaning than that.

    This is the direct quote from the interview taken off the Newsmax website.

    What is your take on global warming and how is it affecting our country?

    A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I’m not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.

    I reiterate WTF!


  2. LEVI says:

    Just to re-iterate, Palin does not believe that gloabal warming is being contributed to by human activity.

    The US EPA’s web site states (and I quote and here’s the freaking URL)

    “Beginning late in the 18th century, human activities associated with the Industrial Revolution have also changed the composition of the atmosphere and therefore very likely are influencing the Earth’s climate.” “Throughout the science section of this Web site, use of “very likely” conveys a 90-99% chance the result is true.”

    This is from the US ENVIRNMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY headed by Stephan Johnson, A BUSH APPOINTEE, not some lefty bullshit “earth first” organization.

    To deny the scientific fact that global warming is occuring and the near certainty that most of the warming in recent years is the result of human activity is ridiculous. When the best scientists in the world (who actually use science to reach their conclusions) are willing to stake their reputations on making the representation and even the Bush EPA agrees, taking a position to the contrary indicates a willingness to reach conclusions in spite of factual reality. This is a position that can not be supported by reason. Under these circumstances, I have to conclude the Palin either does not have a grasp on reality as it relates to global warming or she is willing to ignore reality. Both are unacceptable.


  3. I agree that the US is a special place. My point is that, when we do our research and look at other westernized countries, we have support for a liberal agenda in Europe. It’s not a trump card, because our situation is unique, but it is informative. In fact, the Bushies love to point to international agreement when it does support their agenda.

    So I think you should concede the fact that liberalism has more support around the world than Republican-style “conservatism” (in quotes because I don’t think it is a very conservative agenda).

    In regards to health care, which you make a special point of above, it’s a fact that Americans pay more than our Europeans counterparts and are less satisfied with what we receive. It’s also true, for that few percent that need the very best medical care in the world, that the US has the best to offer. That doesn’t justify, at all, the expensive and wasteful system that we have in the US and the vast amount of our population that we leave behind. It costs you and I more, this dumb ass system we have in this country.

    It’s actually a great issue to use as an example — we could serve everyone better in a French-style health care system, but because of the Republicans, we serve only the wealthy better.


  4. Well, luckily your not the soul arbiter of the amount of merit in someone’s views.

    And I do understand.

    And I’m speaking of the exact issues you are.

    All of the countries you mention are indeed great countries, love them all. But the US is better. We’ve created more wealth, inventions, advancements in medicine, technology, entertainment, etc. than all of the above. This is the greatest nation ever conceived by man. It’s too bad those other guys don’t quite measure up but they’re trying. 😉

    This country absolutely has a puritan streak, but I think that has worked to it’s advantage, not it’s detriment. I don’t want this country to turn into France, or Canada. You do, great, we have discovered a real point of differentiation.

    Canada and the UK, for example, may have universal state run health care which is great for non live threatening, non-chronic illnesses but God help you if you get cancer or need a major life saving surgery. It’s a totally different story.

    We need to work on getting universal coverage in this country but it should not be done by having the government pay for all of it. It needsto be a combination of public and private and market forces need to be injected into the system. Lower health care costs will lead to greater availability

    And read this…

    Better not get prostate cancer and live in Canada, or the UK, France or Germany.

    Though American men are more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer than their counterparts in other countries, we are less likely to die from the disease. Less than 1 in 5 American men with prostate cancer will die from it, but 57 percent of British men and nearly half of French and German men will. Even in Canada, a quarter of men diagnosed with prostate cancer die from the disease.

    And the above is just one example of cancers with bad outcomes in other countries. People in those countries who can afford it come here for treatment.


  5. No, I do not find your views hard to understand. I believe the left in general has a lot of compassion and that they really want to do good. I just believe in practice that those policies they pursue to do good actually do more harm.

    Then you don’t understand. As I heard someone say recently, there are two countries in the US, a liberal European country and a Red State country that is to the right of literally every other country on earth. There is no western country that adopts the agenda of Republicans. None. Even when countries like Canada or Australia lean to the right, those parties are still far to the left of the Republicans.

    I’m talking about issues like abortion, gun control, climate change, welfare and taxes.

    I like Europe. I think the UK, Ireland, Spain, France are great countries. They are imperfect and have their flaws but they are certainly not bad places. Canada is a great country, too. My views are European, in a sense and Europe has proven that these views are completely tenable and practical.

    So I think the US should be more liberal. I’m a fiscal conservative, I’m not a pacifist and I admire and respect the unique qualities that makes America what it is. But the Republicans are wrong, over and over. I think Bush is a terrific example of how Republicans get it wrong. Their hawkish attitude is expensive and dangerous, their tax policy is “trickle down”, their environmental policy is based on denial and an unwillingness to invest in vital, shared resources, their gun policy puts us #1 in gun deaths every year by an order of magnitude, their welfare policy creates crime and instability in the areas most in need of help. Their view on abortion is shared only by Ireland and Muslim countries, which are theocracies.

    I know you mean well. I know your views are not completely and entirely without merit. But almost.


  6. oh yeah, culture of life…

    sometimes wars need to be fought because in the long run it will save more lives than would have been lost if the war was not fought. if we do not fight, and destroy, radical islam then it will grow, and grow, and more people will die, and it will spread, and it will lead to the LOSS of freedom for many across the world.

    dropping the nuke on hiroshima and nagasaki was a terrible, awful thing. innocent people died, little kids, babies, moms. i can’t tell you for sure if that was the right thing to do but historians are almost unanimous in the opinion that more people would have died had we NOT dropped the bomb.

    we have lost 4,000 sons, fathers, moms and daughters fighting in iraq. i strongly believe more would have died had we not brought the fight to them. i may be wrong but this argument is a reasonable argument and IS AT LEAST DEBATABLE.

    and i’m a joe sixpack. i never graduated from college, but that has nothing to do with my native intelligence. i taught myself several programming languages, oodles of complicated software, marketing strategies, management techniques, etc. and i’ve never been on an ivy league campus. i own a company, i employ people, i think i’ve done pretty well, so maybe i identify with someone who just went to the University of Idaho or whatever.


  7. No, I don not find your views hard to understand. I believe the left in general has a lot of compassion and that they really want to do good. I just believe in practice that those policies they pursue to do good actually do more harm.

    Palin’s level of experience is very comparable to Obama and he is running for president and she for VP. I see no double-standard. I don not believe Obama to be unqualified because of his experience or lack thereof, I consider him to be unqualified because of his views, how he sees the country and where he would lead it. I think he would mean well but I think the things he would do would have bad consequences.

    Sarah Palin is hardly Joe Sixpack. She may identify with them but I know lots of Joe Sixpacks and Ms. Palin is much more educated, experienced and accomplished than the Joe Sixpack crowd. She knows how to appeal to them though. They see themselves in her because she has retained that “common touch.” I do see Barack as an elitist and it works against him. His talk in SF when he was caught saying that people cling to their guns and religion is such an elitist statement. No matter how true it may or may not be it smacks of elitism and doesn’t play well with the Joe Sixpacks of the world. It is not a brilliant strategy to insult the electorate. Obama would be winning by a landslide if he just had a little Joe Sixpack in him but he can’t do it. He is part of the elite, the elite media loves him, he gets a pass on everything. The elite media hates Palin, we have to hear about DWI her husband got before they even met, we here from a liberal media how a working Mom maybe shouldn’t be a VP, she must stay hoe and take are of the kids. Can you say “cognitive dissonance?”

    This is another of my big problems, I have an overly developed sense of fairness and McCain/Palin, and especially Palin are not getting a fair shake from the MSM. Read the coverage on CNN, watch the interview with Couric, see the reporting every night on CBS and NBC. The interview with Couric was 2 hours! They pick and choose how they want to portray her. I’m all for tough reporting but they always cast her in the worst light while Obama is just glowing in this fuzzy soft-focused haze. The questions he and Biden get are softballs, they have so many skeletons, and relationships, and votes, and dealings, that are not even investigated. It’s just not fair and I want a fair fight.

    An Ivy league education is not necessarily a bad thing but I do believe it can tend to leach a bit of common sense out of folks sometimes. Last time I checke Bush has an Ivy League education and I don’t think you like him too much.

    And being a constitutional scholar is not a bad thing either. John Roberts is a constitutional scholar and he rocks and you probably hate him. I do not think your education defines your character and to me, character and judgment is as important as education.


  8. Micadelic, I know for a fact you are a rational, intelligent citizen but you have to admit, you find our views hard to understand, right? We find your views hard to understand. I especially don’t understand what I consider the double-standards of the Right. Obama is too inexperienced, we hear, and then McCain picks a shockingly green VP candidate. We hear that they are a “culture of life” but they seem to have no concern for the 100k dead civilians in Iraq. They are fiscally conservative, but Bush grew the budget by 30% and squandered the surplus left to him by Clinton.

    It is 100% false that “joe sixpack” should be in the executive branch. That’s not how we hire any other executive in the world. We demand MBA’s and law degrees and we expect them to be ridiculously smart and informed.

    You use the word elitist all the time with respect to people on the Left. Do you really believe that an Ivy League education is a BAD THING when it comes to this race? Is being a constitutional lawyer a bad thing?

    If you answered yes to my last two questions, then you’re a brainwashed ideologue.


  9. I especially take issue with your insinuation that I am not a “rational, intelligent citizen,” I can most assuredly tell you I am all three. Comments such as that do not further debate, they end it.


  10. Just let me clarify… lolife clearly states above…

    she does not believe that global warming is being caused by human activity. WTF

    When the statement I quoted above by Palin can be characterized in no other way except that she agrees that man made activity contributes to global warming and that we must get other nations to work with us to mitigate the effects of man made activity on the climate. There’s just no way around that Michael. I think it is you all who are deluding yourselves. You are so blinded by what you think she stands for and so busy laughing at her you are not hearing what she actually said.

    And fishdweed, I am trying to be polite about your candidate who I really, really do not believe is qualified and calling this fine, very intelligent and accomplished woman a “fuckstick” just exposes your bias and closed mindedness. I’m really trying to keep a polite, conversational tone and calling someone I happen to admire as much as you worship your candidate a “fuckstick” makes it very difficult.


  11. Yes, i do believe what i say.

    And you guys are real smart and all, you are just so misreading this.

    Biden lied, obfuscated, misspoke and stumbled way more than Palen but you won’t see it or admit it.

    And lolife, please read the transcript, Palin did not say man was not responsible for climate change. She said she was not going to blame man for all of the climate change and that we need to clean up the environment. Whereas Biden said man was totally responsible for climate change. I would have to say that Palin’s characterization is much more accurate than Biden’s. Surely you don’t even believe that man is 100% responsible for all climate change on the planet, that would be absurd.

    As I’ve said so many times, if you have a point, you shouldn’t have to lie.

    Here is what she said, word for word, from the transcript:

    I’m not one to attribute every man — activity of man to the changes in the climate. There is something to be said also for man’s activities, but also for the cyclical temperature changes on our planet.

    But there are real changes going on in our climate. And I don’t want to argue about the causes. What I want to argue about is, how are we going to get there to positively affect the impacts?

    We have got to clean up this planet. We have got to encourage other nations also to come along with us with the impacts of climate change, what we can do about that.

    And if some of the syntax is a little jumbled, so what? Let me go right back to the transcript and I’ll show show PLENTY of examples of Biden’s own problems in this rapid-fire type format. I especially liked when he referred to Bosnians as Bosniacs.


  12. fishdweeb says:

    the scary thing is that I think “mic” actually believes the things he says.

    Give me a break, the 45 share was people that tuned in to watch Palin make a complete ass of herself. Which she did not do. At least not completely.

    She was intelectually dominated at every turn. She barely put sentences together. She winked at the camera how many times? This is what the right wants? seriously?….

    we all stopped by to watch a train wreck and instead we saw Miss Alaska’s pretending to be a VP candidate. So because she didn’t completely fall apart the right thinks she is qualified to lead?…. She was shitty. I have seen HS speech,debate or theatre students present themselves far better than what I saw last night…..

    If you think that the 45 share was from her supporters you are deluded.
    She is what she is period. The fact that people actually believe something other than the truth is so very astounding.

    I am biased, but if she was a candidate of the left I would be embarrased and would admit that my party, indeed, drafted a complete ‘fuckstick’ .

    Anyone who thinks that she “out-debated” Biden last night is blinded by ideology, missconception and a lunacy that escapes the bounds of human reality.

    She is definitely a phenom for the zealots. For rational, intelligent citizens, she is a joke… a curiosity, a sideshow…. …. With the freaks that we currently have in office it is frightening to think that she could slide into the VP seat and quite possibly into the oval office….

    It is an unreal time in America.


  13. LEVI says:

    Whether Republican Democrat or Independent, we should all agree that it is the electorate’s best interests to expose every candidate’s strengths and weaknesses as well as their true positions on the issues. My main bitch about last nights debate is that the moderator didn’t push either candidate to actually answer the questions posed to them. That said, we know who Joe Biden is given his long record in the senate and his presidential bids. All we know about Sarah Palin is that she is pretty good at sticking to superficial conservative talking points when coached but looks very weak when attempts are made to drill down on the foundation of her responses. Regardless of your leanings, a VP candidate who can’t name a Supreme Court decision she disagrees with other than Roe v Wade should not be acceptable to anyone. You’d think someone who takes a position opposed to judicial activism would be able to cite a few cases of judicial activism and explain why those cases are bad precedent for our country. I find it mind boggling that any critically thinking voter isn’t concerned that Ms. Palin has taken a strong position against judicial activism but apparenty lacks the intellectual curiosity and ability to actually read and cite any Supreme Court decision that actually embodies the activism she opposes.

    Further, Palin, a self described ” energy expert” also indicated last night that she does not believe that global warming is being caused by human activity. WTF…..The Bush administration’s own EPA site states (and I quote) “the IPCC has concluded that most of the observed warming in global average surface temperature that has occurred since the mid-20th century is very likely a result of human activities”. “Very Likely” means there is a greater than 90% chance that human activity is causing global warming. The jury is not out on this question. As an energy expert, I’d think she would know what the science actually says.

    I find it disturbing that the right in this country appears to be perfectly willing to tolerate the fact that Ms. Palin’s is misinformed and unable to support her positions with anything other than parroted responses. We don’t need another idealogue.


  14. Here’s a nice quote from a Leftie blogger:

    Granted, I’m hardly an unbiased source. But come on folks! I know these debates are decided far more on style than substance, but surely at some point you have to say something. The country just can’t be so far gone that ninety minutes of contentless babbling that stops just short of utter humiliation now makes you look Presidential. Unlike in her interviews Palin this time managed to speak in complete sentences and her words mostly cohered into actual thoughts, albeit thoughts that were totally irrelevant to the question that was asked. Who outside a brain-dead contrarian pundit or an in-the-tank right-winger could possibly be impressed by that?


  15. The same huge swath of people watch QVC. She’s a phenomena for people who think that completely unexceptional people, provided they are pro-life, should lead this country. If she was Obama’s running mate the Right would be crucifying her, no question about it. This is double-standard central.


  16. audience for debate was a 45.0 share (the mccain/obama debate was like a 32).

    they were not tuning in to see biden, and if you think they were, you are fooling yourself. palin is a phenom among this huge swath of people that you guys just have no appreciation for, or understanding of.


  17. actually, it think what is really funny is how much you guys are completely (and i mean completely) misreading what happened last night.

    here’s a clue for you…
    we weren’t scared shitless by the couric interview. you read a couple articles by a couple nervous conservatives and then you wishfully project that onto all of us. you could not be more wrong.

    my take is that she didn’t awesome last night, she showed way better than biden, and because of that the attacks from the left will be fast, furious, and hysterical.

    and it will backfire.


  18. mnphenow says:

    I think it’s even more funny (and by funny, I mean devastatingly pathetic) that the generally-accepted analysis goes something like: “See, she didn’t spontaneously combust on stage–she’s fit to be Vice President.”


  19. I think it’s funny how relieved the Republicans are. They think that Palin keeping her cool for 2 hours at this debate somehow proves that she is ready to be President. They were scared shitless by the Katie Couric stuff and now they feel like they can relax.

    McCain himself seems to be going literally insane. I can almost quote him. He recently said if he is elected there will be world peace, economic stability, a completely reformed government and fucking unicorns will come dancing out of his ass. He will say literally anything at this point if it will get him elected.

    We are witnessing the long slow decline of John McCain.


  20. imagine says:

    Her performance was adequate. She was very stiff, nervous and got caught in “circular speak” a few times. Considering she has been preparing for this night for a month I would give her a C….She did not drop the “stupid bomb” like she did in the couric interview. Intellectually she was dominated. I missed about 15 minutes of the debate because I had to pick up my son, but I have it on dvr and will watch tonite…it was the Iraq war questions that I missed.

    Maybe I am old and jaded but I don’t see the “gosh darn”, “Hockey mom” and “ya know” ism’s to be an asset to what is needed in this country.

    I thought she significantly dropped the ball on the separation of McCain from Bush. Biden hammered that point over and over again and she had nothing to retort.


  21. She did fine. She was pretty much a Republican talking point robot that ignored the questions from the moderator. But she wasn’t a complete idiot, which was nice.

    Biden was awesome, though. He is a very knowledgeable and gracious person.


  22. if you think that she was “taken down” by biden tonight, your delusional.

    AT THE VERY LEAST, she more than held her own and i think she hands down won the debate.

    and it won’t be told by “points” or “commentators” but the winner will be told by the movement in the polls over the next few days. that is the only measure that truly matters.

    so if you want to beat me up, wait for 3-5 days to tell me how dumb i am.


  23. mnphenow says:

    Absolutely. And if any of her interviews or appearances are any indication, it will be a deeply disturbing and painful train wreck that will be rightfully shredded by her opponents and blindly praised by her backers. Sigh…


  24. fishdweeb says:

    To treat her differently because of gender would be a huge insult and a big mistake. This should be a debate of the minds and intellects.


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