Taxes and smaller government

So micadelic brings up the same Right wing argument about taxes:

Voting to raise taxes is ill-advised, ignorant and short-sighted.

Working to reduce government waste and spending takes courage and brains.

First of all, neither of these sentences make sense when taken to extremes. Should we have NO taxes? Should we reduce government to ZERO? Obviously, taken to extremes, these are both completely retarded. So, as I often like to point out, this is a debate of degree: what is the right balance between the tax burden and the size of government. No one except the most deluded libertarians think we should have no taxes and no government.

So I can’t really agree with the above quoted two sentences. I think Pawlenty was a moron to take new taxes off the table. I think all people, left and right, should be concerned about revealing and eliminating government waste. But we can’t get there just by watching the expense side; every responsible business person needs to be concerned about the income side, too. Government is no different.

The other thing that bugs the hell out of me is when people talk about taxes being “too high” without talking about what they are buying with that money. Go live in Mississippi if you want to live in a low-tax hell hole. Their education sucks and their infrastructure sucks because they can’t get their retarded citizenry to agree to pay taxes. Here in Minnesota we have a great environment for business, an educated work force, wonderful natural resources, great infrastructure. Paying more in taxes is the best decision Minnesotans have ever made.

It’s like if I said “Hey, a bought something for $10k” and you said “You got ripped off” BEFORE YOU KNEW WHAT I BOUGHT! The Right always talks about taxes being too high without recognizing how important that money is in making our state so great. What if I got a new BMW for $10k? Did I get ripped off?

And like I said in the previous post, the rich pay less of their income in taxes than anyone else because many taxes and fees are regressive. It is not stealing to raise taxes on the rich, it is fairness. People capable of paying more should pay more HAPPILY.

We need to raise taxes in this state to ease the property tax burden and get more money into schools. Fucking Pawlenty’s “no new taxes” pledge did not in any way make the problems go away, they made them worse.

Pay your fucking tax bill and be proud of it.

Taxes and smaller government

9 thoughts on “Taxes and smaller government

  1. MGR says:

    I’ve got a prediction… Pawlenty, who I greatly admire, is going to come out of this looking like a hero.

    Guess that prediction didn’t come true. Bridge go down.


  2. bsherwood says:

    What are the percentage of jobs that are “tax base” funded in this country?

    I can’t argue with macadelic on his arguement about waste. Gov. should run fore efficiently.
    As a comparison of dollars to jobs to taxes to areas that do not run efficiently…I am wondering how good or bad the big picture really is?……thinking macro but looking micro.

    I mean, if Michaels stats on military spending is correct then we, sadly have to expect a certain percentage of waste…don’t we?


  3. micadelic says:

    Sheesh. Can I at least get one of you guys to agree that the gov is extremely inefficient in spending taxpayer dollars and if government could run more efficiently, and not waste so much money, it just might help out a little bit and could help offset potential tax increases.

    Can I also get one of you to say that maybe, just maybe the answer isn’t always to just raise taxes? Because that’s what you all sound like.

    In essence, that is all I’m suggesting. I deal with the city and with other quasi-government agencies (largely funded by our tax dollars) and I see first-hand an enormous waste of money, but nobody says anything because they are all on the gravy train. And what I witness first-hand is a tiny fraction of what goes on. I’ve made suggestions to maybe not do a project because it’s underused, or redundant, or a dumb idea but I’ve literally been told to just shut up and take the work because they don’t want to lose funding streams. Politicians (mayors, city councilpersons, governors) initiate all kinds of projects that spend your money and mine that is totally wasteful.

    Should we pay for sports stadiums, do we really need city AND county library systems, do we really need government to pay for city-wide wi-fi when crime is rampant? I don’t know what you guys are thinking but I’d like to see how much waste could be done away with before we become THE highest taxed state in the country.


  4. bsherwood says:

    mic? as an “out of stater” I would be happy to make a gentlemens wager of one us dollar on your Pawlenty prediction. Granted he enherited a mess but I would still wager a buck. **handshake**?

    My uncle was defeated in the gubernatorial (sp) primary’s by Arne Carlson. I understand that there is compassion on the right. He was/is pro-life, anti-gay and had to wear kevlar (again sp?) while campaigning because of what he believed in.

    While he and I dissagree politically on lots and lots of issues, I know of his passion and caring from the right side of the aisle.

    I like what michael said (and he and I do not always agree) about “it takes balls to raise taxes”. To stand up and say “we need to support and fund this issue” and then actually do it.

    I have seen far toooooo many unfunded mandates from the right. far to many “modifications” to the tax code that are really a tax hike (ie….revolving credit interest becoming non-deductable…tell me that was not a tax hike on the middle class and working poor?)

    maybe we are idiots for thinking they should stand up and tell it like it is?

    you are correct that “i’m going to raise your taxes” is an instant boat sinker for any candidate..

    I am way more frustrated by the “lets cut taxes and spend the country into massive debt”
    The incredible trade imbalance.
    health insurance, which is really crippling the middle class.
    declining wages..

    I think the three of us agree on some very key and central issues. We just view the solutions in very different ways.

    so when you are TNPOTUS you should have one of us in your cabinet to kick the potential Karl Roves in the nuts for you.


  5. micadelic says:

    Good luck with the “raise our taxes” campaign. I know that most people really feel like they’re under taxed and they need to give more to the nanny state. I thinks it’s going to be a real winner for you guys.

    I’ve got a prediction… Pawlenty, who I greatly admire, is going to come out of this looking like a hero.

    You guys want to pay more taxes, do it. Nobodies stopping you, write a check to the state. Why do you need to be forced into it by the tax code? Start a charity, volunteer at Sharing and Caring, go nuts. There’s lots of opportunities for charitable giving.

    Me, I like seeing babies starve, get ’em off the welfare rolls I say. The more poor people we can starve to death the less the burden on us working folks. Maybe I can get me that fishin’ boat I want so badly. Or maybe I can figure out other ways to marginalize the poor and less fortunate so we don’t have to think about them. After all, it’s all their fault, poor choices and all.

    That’s what you guys really believe about folks to the right of you, isn’t it. Really, sadly, inaccurate and very unproductive.

    Guys, get a grip, we all want to do the right thing, we all want to help the less fortunate, nobody in this country should go hungry, or go without health care, or education, etc. There are ways to get it done without this never ending and always increasing tax burden.

    It’s not “your way or the highway” you are not always right. You’re characterization of folks more to your right as some kind of “grinch” is not accurate, not productive, and only serves to alienate those that might actually be your partners in the greater good.

    You guys want a partner to help, or do you just want to perpetuate this illusion of the evil right-wing bogeyman in order for you all to feel very superior about yourselves?


  6. bsherwood says:

    I outgrew that mindset. I figured everyone eventually “out-grows” that mindset. Sadly that is not the case. There are those, and I work daily side by side with one of them, that to the “core of their being” believe that all a person needs to do is “pull yourself up by the boot straps and get a fucking job”.

    so you respond; her husband left her with 3 babies. she has no skills, no education. Day care costs 3 times what minimum wage would bring in…..she has no choice but to be on welfare/foodstamps/wic, etc…

    and you think that is an enfallable situation/discussion,

    but they respond…”they should have thought of that when they decided to have children.

    so you toss out the last card in the empathy pile.
    and you say;
    “so the mother made some mistakes, the babies need to pay the price?”

    and the answer comes back, usually something about survival of the fit, or life is cruel or the law of the jungle or some-such nonsense…..

    and I always recall the words of the greatest democrat of them all….

    “that which you do for the least of these, you do for me”

    so in a round-a-fucking-bout-way…yeah, pay your fucking taxes and be proud.


  7. bsherwood says:

    way back when I was a republican I remember being at a grocery store and seeing a woman pay for groceries with food stamps. I paid for my items and walked out behind her. She got into a new lincoln. I thought; food stamps what a rip off. Welfare? fuckem they are all rippin the rest of us off…

    later I realized how wrong I was. true that lady “might” have been un-ethical, but the system and the ideology is not.

    Though I am not “proud” nor do I enjoy paying taxes, I try to think of them as I do donating to charity. It eases the pain of having to cough up the bread and I feel as though I am “doing my part”.

    I loose that feeling as a member of the middle class, as I feel we, as a group, are the oxen of the tax base.


  8. bsherwood says:

    In my opinion the problem started with Ventura and has grown with Pawlenty.

    we used to loose educators to Minnesota, now Minnesota looses educators to us.


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