Go read micadelic’s comments for some context.
First of all, on bias. On the editorial side, I agree that the NY Times leans decidedly left. I also believe that is their right. I do not believe they bias their news reporting. Fox does try to be fair at times but there are many shows that are a weird mix of editorial and news and that is super dangerous. I don’t mind if Fox leans right on editorial stuff but when you present news with an editorial bias, it is lame. I do not believe any (credible) news organization does this to the degree that Fox does. I also don’t think CNN leans left at all. Amy Goodman at Democracy Now! has a great video about how CNN and all the others were great big cheerleaders for the Bush administration during the combat phases of the recent wars. There was virtually no anti-war voice on any national media.
On the war. What you and Bush miss, in my opinion, is the fact that most of the people who are hurt by our actions are not terrorists. Bush doesn’t get that. 99.9% of the people hurt by the “war” in Iraq are not terrorists and they are not necessarily anti-American. Now throw in the context of Zionism and colonialism and Arabs are super duper sensitive to having US/UK boots on the ground. This is understandable. What do you say to this? If we were only hurting terrorists we wouldn’t be having this argument.
Finally, when Bush got elected I said to myself “Let’s have a little faith in all of these smart and well-meaning Right wingers and see how they do.” I was not hoping for failure by any means. One of the first things he did was renege on his promise to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants. He told us one thing and did another. It didn’t exactly bolster my faith. Then with 9/11 came a pseudo-fascist agenda of spying on American citizens, trying to undermine the Geneva conventions, secret prisons, a ridiculously expensive war based on false pretenses (whether known or unknown), a campaign against same-sex couples, a statement that we should teach creationism in schools, a repeated agenda to drill in Alaska, something few Americans support, a belligerent attitude towards our allies such as France…the list goes on. I gave Bush a chance to prove that he represented me and he told me in no uncertain terms that he does not.
So, yes, at this point, Bush does virtually nothing I approve of. He chose that, I didn’t.
Although it may seem otherwise, I AM loyal to the US and my hardline opposition to this administration is an attempt to nudge them to the Left. Bush was elected by a slim minority yet he turned his back on the 48% on this side. He could have been a uniter and had he tried we would have a lot less to bitch about. Instead we hear about the “political capital” he earned and his intention to spend it. Fuck him. Bush is loyal only to his constituency, something that is unbecoming of a President. I can’t even attend one of his appearances because I won’t sign a freaking loyalty oath or whatever.
You are a smart guy and I respect your point of view. I can’t share it.
lolife 
I don’t think we should “torture” anybody either. We shouldn’t pull out their fingernails, or electrocute their nads, or otherwise cause grievous bodily harm. We do need to be able to use somewhat aggressive tactics, thus we do need to debate what torture actually is. The following is directly from Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions in describing the kinds of treatment that are off-limits:
outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
Now, apparently in Islamo-world, the drawing of a cartoon portraying Mohamed, or the presence of a woman not covered by a burka, or an infidel touching a Qur’an bare-handed, or a dog (seriously) is an outrage against their personal dignity. This is why we need better definitions!
And please sir, even if the worst accusations against us are true, I kinda think we have the moral high ground. Look at what happens when this stuff (possible prisoner abuse) comes to light; we launch investigations, we beat ourselves up in the press and otherwise self flagellate, we call for resignations. I don’t see any Americans dancing and whooping in the street because we water-boarded one of the leaders of Al-Qaeda. THERE IS NO MORAL EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM. PERIOD. Last I checked we haven’t cut anybodies head off and proudly published the video to Al-Jazeera. Give me a break.
And as far as maybe some people being held that are innocent, that truly sucks. But I would bet you that all of the people they have in Gitmo are at the very least sympathizers. Point being that these brutal, cheating, homicide-bombing barbarians that they sympathize with choose to fight in such a way that it is next to impossible to tell the combatant from the civilian. Gee, too bad, so sad. Maybe their on the wrong team. And while they’re getting a little free vacation in the Caribbean, at least their getting 3 squares of ethno-sensitive meals per day and regular colonoscopies. Plus, I don’t think they worry too much about having their heads removed from their torsos.
LikeLike
There is a lot to debate here but let me start with this one. You said:
This is what worries on the moral left. You just acted as judge and jury and decided that everyone is guilty. There are people in Gitmo, for example, that were not captured on the battle field, there is no evidence they were enemy combatants, they were denied due process for years and eventually they will go free without being charged. Now just imagine that was you for a minute. I am not at all willing to assume that people are guilty. It’s one step closer to a fascist police state, where the party in power claims people are terrorists and are clearly guilty and then all rights are revoked. I’ve heard many a Right Winger use this argument: They are terrorists! Says who, you?
Now even the ones that are guilty terrorists, I believe, as the guys with the white hats, that we have a duty to treat them better than they treat us. This is called the moral high ground. Torture should be completely off the table because we are moral. If they are not, the difference will be clear to all. As it is, the world is wondering whether we really have the moral high ground.
LikeLike
We have Haliburton-type interests getting rich right now off of the Iraq conflict.
When there is a war, Haliburton-type companies get rich because they offer the kind of services that are required during wartime. When it gets hot, air conditioning companies get rich. I don’t understand your logic unless you are saying we just started the war to enrich Haliburton which, in my opinion, is absurd. I am willing to bet that there are a bunch of companies that have made record profits because of the war. If you check your history books, WWII and all the new manufacturing capability brought on line as a result basically ended the depression.
We have oil companies showing record profits. (When, in your business, when your costs went up did your profit go up?)
If I own a goldmine, and the demand for gold goes up, then I make record profits because people are willing to pay more for my gold. Your premise here is really flawed. My costs did not go up, the demand increased on a limited supply. If all of a sudden a law was passed that required all companies to have an ADA compliant web site, my profits would go up because demand for my product would go up. If you haven’t noticed, oil prices and gas prices are plummeting now because the best cure for high prices is high prices. It cuts down demand and creates a glut. Oil companies have gone through times when they suck wind; capitalists make money when they can so they can weather the lean times.
Also, even if I don’t own the gold mine, I just make gold rings, and the price of gold goes up, I charge more for my rings. I usually charge a percentage over my costs of goods so if my raw material costs go up, so do my profits as long as I continue to maintain my markup.
I am glad you are an astrophysicist (or something like that) and not an economist! 😉
We have the religious zealots who are completely fine with Zionism and see Biblical prophesies in what is going on. (Something Bush refused to deny when asked pointedly.)
Refusal to deny is hardly a smoking gun endorsement or actual policy making. He’s definitely pandering somewhat to his base. It’s called politics. Your team does exactly the same thing only with different issues.
Throw in that this is the most secretive administration in history. They have literally grabbed more power than any administration in history.
Yes, and IMHO, they have every right to be. We are fighting possibly the most cunning, cruel, and deranged enemy we’ve ever fought. They need to hold cards close to the vest. It pisses me off every time these disgruntled “government sources” let the cat out of the bag. Loose lips sink ships.
It is really, really hard to see Bush and his cronies as truly acting in the best interest of the common American people. From the outside looking in, it looks like they are weakening the government through soaring debt
Our debt is not soaring, as a percentage of the GDP, which is the only sensible way to measure it, it’s actually less than it was during most of Clinton’s tenure. But yes, the numbers are huge, we’re at war and we had huge natural disasters last year to pay for!
endangering our military personnel by debating torture,
We have to debate the torture issue. There are no clear guidelines. Also, giving full Geneva Convention protection to these assholes does not make sense to me. The Geneva Conventions were put in place for uniformed armies of legitimate nations. It makes no sense to me to have a set of rules that only one side follows. They barbarically chop off the heads of people they capture, and we can’t use more aggressive means of persuasion? It’s my view that if they want to use civilians as shields, kill absolutely indiscriminately, not wear a uniform, and other wise act like animals, sorry, got no mercy for them.
We’re giving these fucknutts in Gitmo preventative medicine like colonoscopies and other disease screening for god’s sake. And we’re the bad guys? Doesn’t wash with me.
giving tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor
This tax cuts to the rich bullshit is an attempt at class warfare in my book. I guess I’m rich then because I got pretty good reductions as a result of Bush’s cuts. Most low income people in this country don’t pay any taxes at all. There are people who don’t pay any taxes that actually get refunds and rebates! Plus, the first guy to prove that “tax cuts for the rich” actually spurs the economy, creates jobs AND pads the governments coffers was a fellow by the name of John F. Kennedy.
and not doing anything at all to take on the real problems we have right now, such as universal health care.
Universal health care is a bad, bad idea. I believe we should have health care for the poor somehow but a one-provider system through the government for all Americans seems like another opportunity to waste billions of dollars in another inefficient government bureaucracy. Plus, it seems to me that every solution the Republicans put forward is shot down by the left. Things like health care savings accounts, medicare reform, welfare reform, etc.
Also, majority leader (god help us) Nancy Pelosi has instructed the dems to only “oppose and not propose” any legislation on social security reform, etc. She’s a real uniter, not a divider, isn’t she? The dems don’t want to see any progress on this stuff while the right is in power.
LikeLike
One more point — I can believe that Bush is doing his best and is being honest and forthright and being true to his convictions. I can give him the benefit of the doubt.
But so much calls that into question. We have Haliburton-type interests getting rich right now off of the Iraq conflict. We have oil companies showing record profits. (When, in your business, when your costs went up did your profit go up?) We have the religious zealots who are completely fine with Zionism and see Biblical prophesies in what is going on. (Something Bush refused to deny when asked pointedly.) Throw in that this is the most secretive administration in history. They have literally grabbed more power than any administration in history. It is really, really hard to see Bush and his cronies as truly acting in the best interest of the common American people. From the outside looking in, it looks like they are weakening the government through soaring debt, endangering our military personnel by debating torture, giving tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor and not doing anything at all to take on the real problems we have right now, such as universal health care.
LikeLike